The english language wasn’t created by thoughtful experts in spoken or written comunication. If it was you might have a legitimate gripe. If America wasn’t a country of immigrants who had to learn and use english, and in doing so changed the language in many ways, your gripe would be even more legit. If I could suspend disbelief for long enough to think that you know all of the archaic rules of the english language and use them perfectly all of the time, I might think you had gone from petty gripe to an actual point. At that point I would be on your side in this issue if you could come up with a way to correct an adult’s grammar without running the risk of sounding like a condescending jerk. Good luck with that.

Feel free to correct my grammar and spelling. I know you want to.

There is a joke about the whole me and I thing:

“A guy dies and goes to heaven. He approaches the gates and knocks on them. On the other side there is St. Peter, who says ‘Who’s there?’. The guy answers ‘It’s I. Open the gate’. Peter hears that and says to himself ‘Great. Another bloody teacher’.

I don´t live in an english-speaking country. I have a doubt:

Looking around in the web I´ve found that in the Bible there are many examples of “you and I” sentences. Also in the Doors song “Touch me” Morrison said: “for you and I”.

I´ve been looking for a logical explanation (maybe old English? A very polite way to refer to oneself?), but nothing…

So, I came to the conclusion that, even celebrities or God forgot grammar. It´s very sad.

By the way… sorry if I have mistakes in my comment!! Remember: I´m not a native speaker of your language!!

yeah how long did it take you to write the article about being judgemental? Did you understand each and everytime what the individual was trying to impart? Polarity

I appreciate your comments on the use, often incorrectly, of you and I or You and me. aanother such anoyance is the term aren’t I rather than the proper am I not.

Why is it so wrong to strive to become better speakers and writers of the English language? If I make a mistake in my grammar I want people to alert me to my mistake. I want to learn and grow as a person, this seems to have become a negative in society today. I don’t think that uneducated people speak poorly, I think lazy and stagnate people speak poorly. Although, being lazy and stagnate seem to go hand in hand with people who are uneducated.

Maribeth makes a very interesting and valid point. Grammar is a form — one of many — of standardization. Conforming to those standards places you in a certain social group that, for the most part, is dominant over those that don’t conform. This is true in speech, facial hair, manner of dress as well. A person with an enormous beard wearing a caftan had better own the company if he expects to be promoted to senior management. A woman with hairy legs wearing hot pants may be quite alluring in a social situation, but is unlikely to be the future vice president of Human Resources, except perhaps in Sweden. Honestly, I don’t believe race has anything to do with it. My grandmother spoke like she just got off the boat — which she did. I don’t speak that way, nor do I really want to. I haven’t given up and joined some alternative culture, I don’t think, or given up my heritage in any fundamental way. I’m just part of the culture in which I live and work now, not an alternative one. Finally, I’d have to say that this is a Business blog. And my point stands: in this world, grammar counts. We all, to some extent, put on a face when we put on our business garb. My point is that the language coming out of that face should probably match it.

When people start looking at grammar, they start making character judgments. When people make character judgments publicly, it makes everyone listening pay a lot more attention to that speaker’s flaws. So if you’re going to make character judgments based on someone’s grammar (this person is uneducated, this person is stupid, this person isn’t worth listening to), remember that you’re putting yourself out there. How do you think people perceive you when you call someone else an idiot?

My personal opinion on the matter is that if you love grammar, treat it lovingly. If you’re just someone who loves to communicate, make sure you’re understood. People who speak “standard” English will always see themselves as better than those who don’t, despite the fact that the large majority of people do not share the same speech as they do. Furthermore, they like to use the advantages they get from speaking the language of the “privileged” classes in a society.

So eat up, people. But remember, the more “properly” you speak, the more you are conforming to the so-called norms of a white, male-dominated society. If you’re going to do it, fine. But leave the real people alone.

hi am 12 years old and i need help with this question: why did the settlement of roanoke island fail?

Great!
At least you didn’t ‘conversate’ with the business reporter.
What bothers me most is the use of ‘for free’. It is either ‘for X amount’ or it is simply ‘free’.
That is what I find

The worst is the use of “myself.” As in: “Myself and Bob will be available if you need any assistance.” Aargh!

And my favorite: “there’s” instead of “there are”. It’s incredible how pervasive it is.

Example: There’s five boxes of paper next to the copy machine.

Your explanation of when to use “I” v. “me” is too simplistic and leads me to believe that you don’t really know why it is correct to use “me” in the sentence, “That will be between you and I.”

“I” is the nominative form of the pronoun and “me” is the accusative form. Using “me” in the sentence is correct because it is the object if the preposition “between.” Objects of a preposition should be in accusative form. Likewise, it is incorrect to say “Me like that”, and correct to say “I like that” because “I” is the nominative form and the nominative form is the correct form to use here since “I” is the subject of the sentence.

My ex-boss took pleasure in correcting the grammar of his underlings and of his clients. I think some clients were annoyed by this habit, especially when he would waste time correcting grammar instead of focusing on substantive issues.

I believe good grammar certainly has its place, but let’s not miss the forest for the trees. If everyone gets your point, then a little bad grammar here and there never hurt anyone.

I was watching a design show on HGTV. The designer said she had “preprimed” the dresser. Yes, this stuff makes my eyeballs ache, too. Preplan, predrill, preprime are all redundancies and I get weary of hearing them all the time. People seem to think putting “pre” in front of any word gives it more importance or urgency or someting.

Everyone is right on target with the examples of the correct usage of me, myself and I.

Now, can we get the younger folks (under 40?) to STOP already with saying “like” every five seconds? If there is any content at all in their sentences, I don’t hear it. It all sounds like gibberish to me.

It’s okay to slow your thinking, ponder your messages and construct coherent, interesting, descriptive sentences that do not include the words: like, awesome or amazing. Try it sometime. You all are boring the snot out of me.

Finally, to James in Raleigh: You actually hold a job? There is NO excuse for your lousy spelling and grammar. Go back to school. Form and content are equally important.

AMEN! As a retired English teacher (35 years in the trenches), I am in agony each and every day–and matters are only being exacerbated.
People use “anxious” when they really mean “excited,” and I could continue. The irony of the whole situation is that businesses expect employees to have decent grammar, and it just ain’t happenin’ folks!
I could send one page of our hometown newspaper back to the copy editor with multitudinous red marks–omitting journalistic style.
SO. . .where will it end? Who knows? The use of correct grammar is in its death throes, I fear.

To refer to people who specialize in communicating “communications specialists” is incorrect; they are actually communication (no s)specialists. Communications specialists are people in the radio, television, or internet industry. A communications specialist might be one who invents or repairs the devices.

Lousy grammar is not confined to speech and, in my mind at least, compromises the credibility of a business when it appears in printed materials, signs, etc. Yes, even for a humble pizza joint or brake shop, it makes me doubt the management’s intelligence and attention to detail.
By the way, the most frequent written gaffe seems to be the inability to distinguish between the plural and the possessive. So you walk into a store and see a sign saying “No check’s”, or you find yourself driving behind a motor home with a spare tire saying “The Smith’s”, or … ah, this is futile, isn’t it?

If a person claimed that 2+2=5, you would pick them up and correct them in a instant. Why is it more socially acceptable to correct maths than english? … speaking of ‘than’.. I know teachers, and students studying to be teachers that do not know the difference between ‘then’ and ‘than’. They think I am better then them because I know that the correct word there is than. Hw do de kidz hv ne chans 2 leRn da rIte fingz if da teechrz dun no?

Are those profits “going forward” similar to future profits.
This going forward business is both backward and annoying.

One of my favorites is people who lay down but I feel sorry for all those baby ducks they have to kill to get the down.

“The days of good English are went.”

For those of you commenting that using correct grammar and spelling doesn’t matter, think again. It does matter, especially in the business world. People in places like China and Japan are actually learning the rules of English and will think you are uneducated if you don’t know or ignore the rules of grammar.

“Myself” is not correct in that sentence. Just use “me.” “The tour will be conducted by myself”?

How about the use of “myself” instead of “me”as in ” the tour will be conducted by John and myself.”

Bad grammar is an issue, but so is bad math and bad personal communication. It is a shame that no one is perfect with everything. I think the thing that matters is when and where. When I am at home or talking to friends i can use U for you and LoL for thats funny. I can even use jk or ;-). But if i was writing to a business acquaintance and used internet short-hand I would be very unprofessional.

Only in America, Brian. The rest of the English speaking world still uses adverbs. We use them real good, too.

This article is dead on. While some of the comments prove that not everyone cares about doing things correctly, the fact that communications professionals regularly butcher the language is pathetic. Sure, some rules are esoteric and difficult to grasp, but the basics are easy enough to follow. They make a world of difference when communicating.

Using there/their/they’re (and other commonly confused words) properly takes a few minutes to learn but is an easy way to improve your skills. The same holds true for other basics of grammar. The cost/benefit ratio is compelling.

Thw worst offense is the disappearance of the adverb. Even the big 3 anchors will used quick, when it should be quickly. The adverb has become a dinosaur.

I couldn’t agree more. I try not to correct people anymore. I just sit, grit my teeth and suffer through the anxiety attacks.

you is being too frikin anal. you need to stop frikin being anal and just forget about stupid unimportant speech mistakes. if this were writing i’d say you have a point. but you sound like you got some grammar OCD to me. you definately should stop correcting people. if someone recored everything you said for a day i am sure you would some mistake too. so stop getting hung up on people’s mistakes.

…and then there is that tough one: “It’s time for you and I to sit down and have a talk.” You and I are going to sit down and have a talk, but unfortunately we are in a subordinate position in the sentence, and must be happy with “you and me”. How often is this taught in schools anymore?

We’ve all heard that “Johnny can’t read” and that business schools lament that most businesspeople can’t write. All those of you who approve the misuse of words “because it doesn’t matter” should be ashamed of yourselves. It does matter - it matters because to excuse it now means at exactly the wrong moment, someone’s grammatical inconsistency will induce the wrong nuance into a critical process. Does it matter? To the Japanese businessman you’ll be dealing with for a multi-million dollar deal, it does. He’ll go back to his Tokyo headquarters and laugh at you while he inks the deal with your competitor. Don’t kid yourself that your “objectivity” is anything more than abject ignorance.

Me definitely agrees.

I have pretty much given up on I and you in correcting others. It seems that when we were taught that I is the subject and a subjective pronoun, we were not as well schooled on me as an objective pronoun. We don’t say give the ball to I. Thus: give the ball to John and me. If John were left out, me would stand as the correct usage. Isn’t it funny that you know most people think you’re wrong when you use “me” correctly? Sign of the “I don’t care about correct grammar times?” As for the split infinitive, I’ve decided that I won’t give into this incorrect usage either. I cringe when I hear it and take pleasure in not using it.

maybe these people are so smart they know that little meticulous errors in “grammar” are actually meaningless. in the eyes of a linguist, saying “you and me are doing good” is perfectly grammatical, as is “we be goin to tha’ sto’.” bad grammar to a linguist would be “store hippo stolen you killed happy is.” what you’re unknowingly doing here is adding fuel to a linguistic class struggle, stating the way i speak is better because i read it in my school book in the third grade.

This is so true, it drives me absouletly insane when people misuse grammar! Of course I can’t say anything or else be branded as a grammar nazi…

Comming from a philosopher, this is one of the seemingly unimportant rules of english. Meaning of the sentence really doesn’t hang on proper use of Me/I, and using the wrong one really doesn’t affect communicative efficacy. In other words, they get angry that you correct them because it doesn’t matter.

this is easy folks. you and i are going to the game. the tickets are for you and me. now do it with just me and i. i am going to the game. the tickets are for me. the formula is simple take the other out of the sentence and you will know immediately which is correct. happy speaking.

sure grammar is important, but when you take it to the level of criticizing a person over the incorrect use of the words “me” and “I” you are going a bit far.

grammar is important for proper communication. once you have reached the point that your message is being coherently translated, any more effort in proper grammar is subject to the law of diminishing returns. the more effort you spend on improving it further, the less time you have to spend on more important things.

so, to answer your question, smart people use bad grammar because smart allocate their time and effort where it is most pertinent.

Anyone who thinks that spelling or grammar has anything to do with a persons intelligents is very ignorant. One of the smartest people I know can’t even tie her own shoes. When the brain is working on the level these people are sometimes it can’t handle simple tasks. Or in the case of this woman who is ingenious at math is not able to spell or use grammar. Maybe you should try trigonometry by hand and then complain about someone who has poor grammar.

To all the lazy bums who can’t be bothered to learn spelling and grammar:

may be we shood just abandin ofishul speling and gramer, and yooz fonetic aproksimayshunz (wich we can mayk up as we pleez, cuz hey — wy shood sum wun tel me how to liv my lyf, ryt?).

after ol, its not as if we yooz serch enjins or uther teknolojee whats efektivness depenz on “ofishul” langwij skilz, noumsayin?

Grammar DOES matter. Grammar is a standard for communication. Try ignoring any other standard and see what happens.

I’m not too picky about grammar. However, I once ordered an expensive product online. When I received an e-mail from the company confirming my purchase, it was littered with spelling and grammatical mistakes. That really shook my confidence in them. For business purposes, I think correct grammar is a must. If you don’t write carefully, then the customer might think you don’t really care about the deal/purchase.

Another thing that gets to me is poor grammar in lecture notes. A comma in the wrong place can change the meaning of the whole sentence, and when you’re trying to understand a very complex idea, those errors that cause ambiguity in meaning can be frustrating.

My 2 cents

The split infinitive thing is a complete red herring. It was never incorrect to split infinitives, some people just liked to pretend it was.

No, truly smart people know that grammar, in informal settings, is irrelevant. They may know proper grammar, they just don’t care.

Also senators and representatives often fall into this category. On C-Span one can hear such statements as “He gave the bill to Mr Jones and I.”, or “Myself and Mr Smith introduced this bill.”.

Also, Jay, it’s “than” and not “then”. Although different regions do have different grammars, pronunciations etc., there are certain rules/distinctions that hold throughout like then/than or their/there/they’re or your/you’re that pertain more often to writing than speech.

Linguists put together grammar rules to describe how people speak. When those rules no longer are descriptive of the way a language works in “the wild”, they aren’t useful anymore. There does exist a certain class of person who, seeing that someone wrote down “rules” insists that people follow them.

The fact is, languages cha